Ah, the crunch of fried foods, the taste of cold beer and a humongous screen showcasing men pounding each other with the purpose of moving a ball through, over or past a goal. Oh how I love getting together with the guys to watch sports, especially at this time of year when postseason races are heating up.
But this isn’t a post about food, drinks or sports. Instead, I want to share with you some emotions that I experience when spending time with my guy friends and male family members, most of whom do not know about Jessica.
As someone who is essentially in the middle of the gender spectrum, my eyes are open to a slew of issues and causes that the typical male — let’s face it — either doesn’t know or care about. This ignorance typically leads to things like homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny.
Speech and behavior like this have bothered me my entire life, although nowadays I am more conscious of homo and trans phobias. “Guys will be guys” is a phrase that I hate, because I am not nor never will be a guy like this. I have my beliefs, principles and values and I will be faithful to them.
Which leads to something a little bit different for the blog, I am asking you for advice. While I love hanging out with the fellas, I cringe when they say things like:
- “I would so f**k her”
- “She looks like a transvestite”
- “Shut up ho!”
- “Don’t act like a b***h”
- “No homo”
- “What a f*g”
- “She’s a hermaphrodite”
Common wisdom would suggest that if I were to speak up every time I hear someone around me utter one of these phrases I’d find myself losing friendships at an alarming rate and start finding myself watching the big game all alone.
Should I just ignore this? Is it wise to rant about it? Should I wait until its unbearable and then give a long speech to the guys? I’m honestly getting to a point where this stuff bothers me a lot and I am confused on how to respond.
Maybe I’m blowing things out of proportion but I obviously would rather not here speech like this coming from people that I care about, but is it my job to enlighten and educate? What sort of things would you do or say if you were in my position?
Please weigh in on this by leaving a comment below, I appreciate your support.
photo credit: jaytkendall
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{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
Hi jessica
you make some really good observations and I dont think that peoples speech and language are limited to these subjects alone. I am constantly amazed by sexist, ageist, racist comments that both my friends and family say without even realising how potentially offensive or exclusive their comments are. My family I correct as diplomatically as I can, (this track record is not entirely successful.) My friends, well it depends how well or how close I am, there are a few people who I bite my tongue with because I am getting to know them slowly and I want to build up some trust and respect before I begin to address a few phrases. This way I hope they will listen ‘with some love’ rather than get defensive or objectionable. Its not an easy one.
Hugs
Helen
Most of my guy friends when i was younger, weren’t the typical guy. More into the heavy metal scene.
i moved away from them, and don’t keep in touch.
However, one job i had, i had that thing going on, where guys would come grab me to check out a hot lady at the work place, and say things that i just didn’t care for, while i looked, all i thought was how i wanted her shoes, or skirt, or something as so, lol.
This continued to happen even showing up to work with nail polish on my fingers, usually red or black.
So, the thought and answer is up in the air for me.
On the other hand, are they friends if they leave you because you’re gay?
Not saying you are gay, i know you’re not, but would it be easier telling friends like that that you’re gay, or like to dress as a girl?
Or maybe it would be easy to just hint at it, like wearing a necklace, and making it a more femme one each time you see them.
Then adding more, like clear painted nails, on smooth manicured nails.
i don’t know.
i easilly walked away from the guy-stereotype the day i was born.
But its still hard to show guys my true self, which includes walking in a store in a dress, which i think, they don’t even notice.
Best wishes!
xo
Hi Jessica,
It doesnt matter what you’re talking about, thing is we generally get on with our friends and we quite often avoid doing things that would set up barriers between us. Thats the difference between friends and strangers. So I dont think you’d loose friends if you start to weigh in when these comments are passed.
Another point though, Men tend to talk in statements, so when a guy says “She’s a transvestite” , and another guy says “No she isnt.” Its rarely going to end in a fight. Normally the response will be a statement somewhere between the two facts, working towards a compromise. Women tend to put themselves into the comment, like “I think she looks like a transvestite. ” so I think you’ll find that women are more careful about what they say, because a response is more likely to be about the person that said it then the statement itself.
Myself, I like to drop things like this into my regular speech. I’m not out as a Tranny, but if my ‘secret’ is ever discovered by my friends or if they ever confront me, my response is always like “yea, didnt you know?”.
Lastly, I was brought up to have manners. As a guy if im sensitive to trans or gay people, or females for that matter i think its because i’m a gentleman, rather than that I have some secret empathy thats unusual based on my ‘hobby’. Also I think you’ll find that manners spread like zombie viruses. You might be surprised by how your friends adjust their points of view based on their unwillingness to cause an upset.
- Debs
Those epithets are not the only thing that make me uncomfortable socializing with men. I’m much farther to the female side of the gender spectrum, so I am uncomfortable with any kind of macho banter. One on one, men are a little easier for me to take, but when they get together in groups, they seem to feed on each others testosterone, and I just want to get out of the room. I pretty much stopped hanging out with the guys a couple of decades ago, because I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable being around them. About the only guy I see on a regular basis is my brother-in-law, and he nearly drives me crazy with his constant reminiscing of his military past, his competitiveness, and his apparent need to not so subtly remind everyone that he is a tough, independent, alpha male. I much prefer the company and conversations of women.
Melissa
P.S.
Trying to correct your male friends, is a waste of time, and if you do it too much, you will only irritate them and alienate yourself. You may be able to influence some on an individual basis, if you approach it in non-threatening way, but the peer pressure to be macho when men are grouped together, will overcome any efforts to civilize them.
Melissa
Jessica, Jessica, Jessica, you know the answer already to your question. If you are comfortable with you, that’s all that counts. If your wife is comfortable with you that is a big plus, more than most girls have. Your private life is your own. I love football and sports and so does my wife but when we watch sports that’s what we do. When you are with CD’s be who you are”you”. Social values vary from family to family and most people are prejudice in groups only. When they are alone you see the real person.
Jessica be happy, that’s all that matters.
Louise
If they really are your friends – in theory they whould accept you for who you are – if not, then how can they be your friends – they woudl fall more along the lines of aquaintences. Find friends that are more tolerable – I know several T-girls that love to watch the football games – including myself. So, even if you ended up losing these guys as “friends” – you can always find a new group who have tolerance and respect – who love to watch football.
I agree with Melissa – it’s a waste of time to correct them all the time – your best thing to do is to be patient and let the comment drop off you like rain to a duck. You’re not going to change them…
before i came out of the closet I was also very uncomfortable around attitudes like that. Now I use humour in those situations. for instance, if someone says “what a fag”, I’ll say ” Yah, he’s even queerer than me”. Or when someone say’s “I would so f–k her”, I would reply,” damn, I wish I looked half as hot as her”. This usually tends to make people laugh and more importantly it tends to keep men more attentive and respectful ( or uncomfortable) regarding me and my lifestyle. It puts them in the hot seat so to speak.
If you’ve “outed” yourself as a person who finds sexist, homophobic etc. comments troubling to enough of your friends one-on-one, which seems like the way to do it, then—if they’re anything like stereotype embracing male friends I’ve had—when you’re with The Gang they’ll be aware of your views, and won’t cool their behavior because of you but might say, “Oh, (your name here) doesn’t like that…” and rib you a bit for being ‘PC’ or something. They know certain beliefs of yours are different than theirs, and you’re not plagued with the sense of guilt over your silence, that it makes you complicit in things you find ugly. If there’s real respect for you they’ll view you as eccentric but valued friend. If there isn’t they weren’t good friends to have. Never having been a sports fan though, my times with guys like this were mainly all about “partying”, and now that I don’t, I don’t really have those kind of guy friends who would tell me things like, “Jeez, dude! You’re such a bitch!” anymore. The male friends I have now tend to be wimpy egghead types, not terribly unlike my trans and g.g. girlfriends in their views and comments, in fact sometimes a lot less coarse than some of genetic my girlfriends, who can really talk some shit!
~~~hugs, Laika
A fellow TG friend of mine was asked if she dated she said she used to but she wasn’t into farm animals cause most of the guys she use to date turn either into pigs or dogs , but there are men out there that are worth it , It’s just finding them for they are few and far. But I still keep an open mind that i may yet find one of thoose men when the time comes
I can tell you how I was (and am), but I’m not going to tell you that you should do what I do. That said…
It bothers me too. It always has. In high school, I had no choice. I was a target in school already, so I can only imagine if I gave those guys some “lip.” I had hardly any friends in high school. I had many more friends in college (and beyond), but they were almost all female. Why?
I can’t stand the way men talk about women. I can’t stand the whole “macho this,” “alpha-male that.” I don’t hate men, mind you (there are many militant lesbians who do), but that kind of attitude just irks me to no end. I wouldn’t want to be friends with those who view women and LGBT folk that way.
That’s just me, though.
Well, I think if you keep an eagle eye open when around these clouts you will find that there is really only one or two of them who tend to make these kind of comments. Unfortunately, that is all it takes for the testosterone to get riled up and every other dumb ass dude standing there with them will try to one-up. This leads to a session where each tries to top the other – - it’s a very macho scenario where each guy tries to show that his balls (and whatever else) are larger than the other guys.
Bulls do this in the pasture. The winner gets to bang all the cows so the competition gets pretty stiff – - pardon the pun. It is all due to the accident of birth. It’s the same deal that left you and I in the situation we find ourselves dealing with. Wanna be fems. Ladylike and all that.
It’s a bummer, but, if you wanna hang with the bulls in the pasture you gotta be ready to hear the bullshit!
I don’t even know where people pick this up. My sister is only 12 and the synonym for uncool is apparently gay.
We can’t control the world around us. We can only control our reaction to it.
Personally, Jessica, I don’t let comments like that bother me. I’ve learned long ago that they’re just talk. There usually isn’t any hate associated with them and even the most non-judgemental guy is guilty of comments like that when in groups.
I think you have a choice. If you enjoy your friends, shug it off. Their comments are not going to change or hurt the world.
If it really bothers you, it’s time to graciously and quietly move on to new friends without addressing your reasons. There’s nothing you can say to stop these meaningless comments or justify your feelings rgarding them. And a tantrum will only make you look bad in their eyes.
But be careful. Friendship is important and should never tossed aside without good reason.
We expect tolerance from others .. time to be tolerant of them. They’re not axe murderers! They’re just guys.
Being TG we are very aware of both genders and their attitudes.I associate more as a female than a male yet I still understand the attitude that the macho male personifies. No matter what we say they will always be the same so I ignore most of what I hear. If its to offensive ,than I will say something but I tend to us humor rather than attitude.We can only change the world so quickly but thing of how much it has changed even in the last 10 years.
I kind of feel like one of these phrases is not like the other. This one:
Is that really that bad? I can sometimes say “I would so f**k him” about some random guy, if surrounded by friends. It’s an expression of desire, I guess. It’s a little crude, but I suppose desire isn’t always dignified. No?
As much as what they do annoys me I think that Leslee has hit the nail on the head.
Men will always be men, and that means having to be ultra macho the whole time. I have to say that even the non sporty geeks I know do this, thy just change the rules slightly.
It really bothers me when it gets crass or personal though. The worst I have had in a long time was at the Assen TT this year. On two occasions over the weekend there were large crowds yelling at single girls “Daar moet een peimel in” and “Beir en Tieten Hurrar hurrar” (I’m sure if you use your imaganation you can guess what the dutch means). Worse my brother in law, who was there with me, couldn’t see the problem as it was all done in good spirits, they don’t mean anything by it… Hundreds of guys yelling that is not something I can see as being acceptabe ever…
It’s behavior like you describe that made me ashamed to be a guy, and I decided long before I ever thought of transitioning that I wouldn’t be like that.
If someone was in my own home and made comments like that, I ask her/him to stop. If s/he doesn’t, I would ask them to leave. It’s my home and I have the right to determine the standards of acceptable behavior. If I was out in public or at someone else’s home and someone makes a remark like that, I would tell her/him that I don’t think that kind of behavior is acceptable. If it continues, I would leave.
I refuse to be complicit in or indicate my acceptance or even tolerance of such remarks. Frankly, I don’t want friends who think or believe that way, or who are simply too clueless to think about the impact of their words on the world around them. Words do hurt, despite the old nursery rhyme.
Jessica, good post and good thread ladies!
Generally, when a wannabe alpha-dog makes these comments, I just shake my head and call them a Neanderthal or equivalent (sometimes just a##hole). Confidence-wise, I can usually take anyone in the room. Plus I have a hot wife who will really get in someone’s grill when sexist or insensitive remarks are made. A correction from me is usually the lesser evil of the two of us.
I like sports (baseball rather than football, but living in SF Bay Area, we don’t have much to boast about with either the 49ers or the Raiders). So I enjoy sports and can enjoy myself around the guys. Last Friday, I went out with my wife and five of her fashion designer friends to a fashion show and drinks afterwards. This was feminine nirvana. We talked fashion and apparel all night long. I was one of the girls and they loved it and were very envious of my wife having an understanding and supportive husband. Once we got home we changed into our favorite nighties and enjoyed intimate time together.
The next day we both cheered on Stanford handing USC their worse home loss ever. (EVER!) My point is that we have an opportunity here to build for ourselves an incredibly rich life — and thoroughly enjoy both the male and female roles. I am very fortunate to have married an incredibly talented and understanding woman. She would kick me out of the bedroom if I ever tried going to bed in a cotton t-shirt. She gets it and has encouraged me to express who I truly am, not playing a role or games. She says she was attracted to both my confidence and compassion. These are traits I have worked hard to develop no matter whether I am dressed in a suit or an evening gown.
A fantastic thread girls, well done on all the contributions.
There is no doubt sports seem to bring out the macho, sexist and homophobic behaviour in males. As Kathy said it often escalates as the Bulls try to jockey for alpha male status. Great line Kathy about being ready to put up with the bullshit!
As Seleena said we can only control our own reaction. It is not always easy but choosing not be offended can be very powerful.
I think context is important. In an all male group you may be able to sense that it is just banter and one upmanship and it is probably best just to ignore it. A half time lecture is unlikely to change anything or win any friends!
There is a serious side to this though. We have seen in Australia a number of “off field incidents” involving football players and sexual assault. If a sexist culture that is degrading to women is allowed to flourish it can be a dangerous thing.
If the talk gets around to being violent towards women by all means I would encourage all men (Sissy or not) to speak up and say something along the lines of “real men don’t hit women” or “How would you feel if that happened to your sister”.
If this talk is going on in front of women ,acknowledging that there is a woman present and asking the perpetuator to mind his language, I think would also be appropriate.
If the talk is homophobic a comment that research has found that those who bash gays are often in denial about their own sexuality may also shut them up!
Hugs
Sissy Karen
Tell ya what Jess, this is typical day to day stuff in my workplace, the whole we don’t tolerate harrassment of any kind, apparently has a good ‘ole boy clause, because it goes overlooked and ignored and even embraced by the higher ups. I work in an institutional setting and we hold out clients to the same level of respect, yet we can’t do it ourselves. I’ve already alienated myself from my co-workers and have one harrasment complaint ongoing for something unrelated. If I decided to report everything I’ve ever heard that violated policy I’d be looking for a new job. Just the spewing ignorance that I’ve heard over the years makes me sick and I can’t really do or say anything about it other than walk away without outing myself… I’m sure it would get worse. I’ve already spoken with the head of security and human recources on the matter and told them honestly I know nothing will ever be done…so far I’m right. I know for years I denied what I am, but even trying to be “one of the guys” I was never like that.
Wow, just wow. This is incredible, thank you all so much. I sincerely mean it, I am so fortunate to be able to have all of your support. Your comments and insight really, really helped me feel better about this situation
.
- Jessica
Jessica – I have read all of the above comments and am very pleased to know that your readers, all in all, are on the corret side against vulgarity , particulary sexist vulgarity. I applaud your leadership and your readers comments.